A few days ago, someone on Twitter wrote about a Youtube video of an interview with David Bohm, after he had send some quotes from Bohm that caught my attention.
I followed the link to the Youtube video and was immediately fascinated by this man. I am not exactly sure why, but it seemed that what he had to say was something that he had thought about a lot although it was not easy to put into words.
He gave me the feeling that he knew a lot, but was not sure yet what the interviewer wanted to hear from him. He also gave the impression of having rather radical ideas without the intention of being to radical.
So I was really fascinated by what he had to say and listened to all 5 videos. After that I wanted to know more about him and searched a bit on the web. I wanted to write a blogpost on some things he had to say but did not know exactly how to do that.
Should I try to find out who he was, what he did, what he discovered, what his ideas where, which books he wrote, where he came from and all other things that might be important? But then I thought, although all that was important as a sort of context, I mainly wanted to just write down some things he said that really resonated with me.
So then I uploaded the 5 videos and listened to them again, now making some notes. Not from everything he said but just a few lines from each video that where the most interesting to me. And at the end I will write in a few words my interpretation of what he said.
[UPDATE:Â A full transcriptionÂ on the page David Bohm Video Interview with Transcription]
David Bohm interview part 1
focus on wholeness and process
analysis and parts and more static consistence
each process is a whole or else it cannot be what it is
aspects that act on how the system is treated
David Bohm interview part 2
incoherence can easily be not noticed
it is hard to question a worldview
every worldview is limited
we need to go to a broader view
a dialogue of these worldviews
confusion about the part and the whole
listening to another worldview without opposition
observer is intrinsic part of the whole
a kind of communicationÂ that does not begin by denying wholeness
together going to discover how we are going to think together
it is possible in ordinary language and it depends on attitude
it is always possible to use language in new ways
basic obstacle is the attitude of the people involved
attitude problem for wholeness
David Bohm interview part 3
sign of the wholeness that everything is an analogy to everything
subtle difference with the vision of Bohr
Bohr: not possible to make a concept of the whole
you could not make it intelligible
the mathematics could only give experiments
not possible to discuss what was happening
Bohm: the quantum field is different from the electromagnetic field
it only depends on the form and not on the intensity
theÂ field drops of but the effect does not
it depends on information
information = to put form in
you only need a sensitive receiver
the energy comes from the receiver, not from theÂ radiowave
the wave is not pushing the ship around
the radio wave is giving shape and form to its motion
back to Aristotle: a formative cause
form is fundamental
explains non local and superconductivity
is closer to life and mind
responds to form and not to substance
information contributes fundamentally to the qualities of substance
Bohr would say there is no way to discuss that at all
it is nothing but phenomenon which is a whole
that we could only discuss the mathematics
giving the probability that certain results will be obtained
now this gives an intelligible explanation
it requires you to accept new principles
David Bohm interview part 4
show the connection between this and the experience in other fields
experimental predictions is only one of the functions of the theory
it enables you to understand what is going on
this interpretation will make it more accessible to more people
and perhaps show the connection with different fields
not classical, if you say it carries this form of information, it changes it
new concept: activity of information
it contributes fundamentally to the concept of substance
it looks more like the classicalÂ then thatÂ of Bohr, but is also much different
the wave function is part of the reality
analogy to society, they are interrelated by information exchange
that is crucial, without that the society would collapse
essential to have coherence and harmony
exposed by exchange and dialogue
potential we need to go in that direction
but the general trend has not gone any far
because of nations and religions behave as if they are independent
they have to give all that up but will find that hard
we have so many individuals with different views
talk and entertain each other and look at it calmly
that each one can look at all the views
and when he holds all the views, then he holds the whole
although he doesn’t have to agree with them
the common view that guides society
each individual needs the freedom to get to know all the information
information gets also in by osmosis and build in as a sort of instinct
David Bohm interview part 5
we are already a whole but we are incoherent
people who hate each other are very related
but an incoherent one
it is a destructive one and has to become something else
people are now committed to the economic growth
the focus on material good has to change
consciousness is more important than money
if we feel we are all part of this world
or that we think we are all separate
Bohr saw that in the 50s
people where not ready then
said there were so many enemies
had to take care of themselves first
a change of consciousness is needed
and a worldview is part of that
like a stream from many springs
one of the most important factors is dialogue
dialogue among scientist, with othersÂ also religious
scientists find it harder than other people
science has shown scientists what they don’t want to see
they feel uncomfortable about change
they say there is no reason to change
we are doing so well now, why should we change
in one view it looks like we are doing very well
but if we look at the broader view it looks very dangerous
My main impression
Writing down some things he said, already made it more clear. He said things that are shared by other peoples views, like focus on wholeness and process instead of analysis and parts.
But I was especially interested in the part of his vision where he said something like ‘the quantum field is different from the electromagnetic field, itÂ only depends on the form and not on the intensity’ and ‘information contributes fundamentally to the qualities of substance’.
So my main impression of what Bohm is talking about in this interview, is that there are two forces. One reacts to intensity and one reacts to form. Or maybe one is intensity and the other is form. Or intensity reacts to form.
Another thing I found very interesting was his focus on dialogue and the use of language and how attitude of those who participate in dialogue is so important. How essential it is to realise that there are different woldviews that all might be true in itself, but are also just a part of the whole. About how important it is to integrate all views ‘that each one can look at all the views and when he holds all the views, then he holds the whole’.
Somehow I have the feeling that what he says is essential and very much relates to the difference between mind, body, spirit and soul. And also very much relates to the development of individuality and the dialogue between individuals, with the empasis on a pure individual worldview formed from personal experience.
So in another blogpost I want to explore that further, how it relates to processes in human development, integral theory and the language of the zodiac.
Anne, I’m indeed reeling under crushing blows.
These interviews are undescribably insightful.
I’m totally astonished. WOW.
Bohm’s view is very similar to mine in that
1) it emphasizes on wholeness, which matches to ‘something beyond reason’ in my theory.
2) notifies the shortcomings of western worldview, which is similar to what I point out; linguistics should be substituted with ‘lingua-ethics’.
Well I’ve only gone through the first two videos since I don’t have enough time today, but I won’t easily forget the super-experience I had today.
GRATIAS TIBI AGO
take care, I’ll post some comment on my blog ina few days.^^
I am so glad to hear you found the videos insightful and that his thinking is similar to yours.
At the moment I am trying to transcribe the third video because there he explains what makes his views different from the ‘mainstream’. There he says it is his attempt to make the discoveries of quantum physics intelligible.
According to others, it is not possible to understand it in any other way then with mathematics, but Bohm thinks there has to be a way to make a concept of the whole, that can be understood and communicated.
I am making that video with transcription into another blogpost that I hope to upload soon.
And I look forward to the comments on your blog.
hi.. i am Amit from INDIA. recently i came across your blog while researching about bohm which lead me to this blog. so i found this post of yours but the youtube links are removed, so can you put forth a link to the discussion of david bohm for which u have provided the transcripts.
You can find the video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QI66ZglzcO0
But it is possible that it also gets removed there. If so, you can always do a Youtube search: “David Bohm interview Copenhagen 1989” to find it somewhere.
Good luck and enjoy the video.