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	<title>Comments on: Development in the Zodiac</title>
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	<link>http://www.mindstructures.com/2009/09/development-in-the-zodiac/</link>
	<description>about mind versus matter and collective versus personal development</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 14 Aug 2010 10:47:42 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Immanuel Ghim</title>
		<link>http://www.mindstructures.com/2009/09/development-in-the-zodiac/comment-page-1/#comment-852</link>
		<dc:creator>Immanuel Ghim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jun 2010 07:48:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mindstructures.com/?p=647#comment-852</guid>
		<description>Thanks Anne, for your genorous and immediate explanation.
It reveals my shortcomings in understanding your writing, and fortunately drives me more into your theory and thoughts.

I&#039;m satisfied with your replies on all my three questions. They are 100 percent helpful. 

So I conclude that
the zodiac which you have provided is a stereotype 
of the different phases of human beings, 
and from here you may well likely to develop your own analysis 
on human mind structure, 
using, by combination and mixture, of these phases.

I&#039;ll pass on to your second post and leave some premature questions there also ^_^

Thanks in advance.
Ighim</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Anne, for your genorous and immediate explanation.<br />
It reveals my shortcomings in understanding your writing, and fortunately drives me more into your theory and thoughts.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m satisfied with your replies on all my three questions. They are 100 percent helpful. </p>
<p>So I conclude that<br />
the zodiac which you have provided is a stereotype<br />
of the different phases of human beings,<br />
and from here you may well likely to develop your own analysis<br />
on human mind structure,<br />
using, by combination and mixture, of these phases.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll pass on to your second post and leave some premature questions there also ^_^</p>
<p>Thanks in advance.<br />
Ighim</p>
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		<title>By: Annemieke</title>
		<link>http://www.mindstructures.com/2009/09/development-in-the-zodiac/comment-page-1/#comment-849</link>
		<dc:creator>Annemieke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jun 2010 19:20:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mindstructures.com/?p=647#comment-849</guid>
		<description>Hi Ighim

You have some really very interesting questions. I will try to answer them according to my own understanding, which is just a view based upon different theories. 

1. As I see it, there might be an emphasis on one of the twelve. But that does not necessary have to be the sign that &#039;belongs&#039; to that phase. And that does also no mean that the rest is &#039;inactive&#039;. Every phase has the cycle in itself too. 
As an example, the transition into puberty, might just as easy be at another age then 14. Maybe earlier, maybe much later. The essence is that the individual &#039;thinks and acts totally independent from his background&#039;. And the transition in itself has that same development, from sudden action (1) to sustaining, focus and growth (2) to gathering and exchanging information (3) and so on.  

2. Saturn and Uranus are used as a way to describe the time of a human life. Their transition makes aspects to the place at the time of a persons birth. The whole of a human life is symbolised from birth until Uranus is returned on the same place as it was with the birth of that human. That is around the age of 84. In that same time, Saturn comes back for the third time on its position of birth. And in the meantime every 7 years Saturn makes another challenging aspect with the postition of birth, and Uranus every 14 years. 
If they happen together, like around puberty (Saturn opposition and Uranus square) it symbolises the first major change. And around midlife the second (Uranus opposition and Saturn&#039;s second opposition) it is another major change.

3. There are many ways to look at it, but my main focus is on the differentiation between pre-individual (1-4) individual (5-8) and post-individual (9-12).
I would not say 4-6 deals with consciousness in society, because I think society begins with &#039;collective inside&#039; which is 7-8-9. I would say 4-5-6 is &#039;personal inside&#039;. 
If I would have to differentiate in consciousness I would use the 3-7-11 for consciousness and 4-8-12 for the unconscious. 
3-7-11 differ in that 3 is pre-individual consciousness (what you learn at school, from books and with interactions), 7 is individual consciousness (reflection on yourself as an individual) and 11 is the post-individual consciousness (internet and other forms of global interaction).
The same with the unconscious, 4 is the pre-individual unconsious (personal emotions combined with family and cultural background), 8 is the individual unconsious (psyche and shadow) and 12 the post-individual unconscious (collective unconscious like dreams and myths).

Another interesting question is if each phase can seen as an independent island. I think in reality it can not, as everything can be a combination of several phases at the same time. But as an archetype, each is very different. Sagittarius as an archetype is completely different from Capricorn (expansion versus contraction) and Gemini is completely different from Cancer (intelligence versus emotion). 
But each has a cyclic development on its own. So even with Sagittarius there is a phase of realism (Capricorn) in the cycle of, for example, philosophy (Sagittarius). 

I hope it all makes a bit sence, if not feel free to ask again.

Annemieke</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Ighim</p>
<p>You have some really very interesting questions. I will try to answer them according to my own understanding, which is just a view based upon different theories. </p>
<p>1. As I see it, there might be an emphasis on one of the twelve. But that does not necessary have to be the sign that &#8216;belongs&#8217; to that phase. And that does also no mean that the rest is &#8216;inactive&#8217;. Every phase has the cycle in itself too.<br />
As an example, the transition into puberty, might just as easy be at another age then 14. Maybe earlier, maybe much later. The essence is that the individual &#8216;thinks and acts totally independent from his background&#8217;. And the transition in itself has that same development, from sudden action (1) to sustaining, focus and growth (2) to gathering and exchanging information (3) and so on.  </p>
<p>2. Saturn and Uranus are used as a way to describe the time of a human life. Their transition makes aspects to the place at the time of a persons birth. The whole of a human life is symbolised from birth until Uranus is returned on the same place as it was with the birth of that human. That is around the age of 84. In that same time, Saturn comes back for the third time on its position of birth. And in the meantime every 7 years Saturn makes another challenging aspect with the postition of birth, and Uranus every 14 years.<br />
If they happen together, like around puberty (Saturn opposition and Uranus square) it symbolises the first major change. And around midlife the second (Uranus opposition and Saturn&#8217;s second opposition) it is another major change.</p>
<p>3. There are many ways to look at it, but my main focus is on the differentiation between pre-individual (1-4) individual (5-8) and post-individual (9-12).<br />
I would not say 4-6 deals with consciousness in society, because I think society begins with &#8216;collective inside&#8217; which is 7-8-9. I would say 4-5-6 is &#8216;personal inside&#8217;.<br />
If I would have to differentiate in consciousness I would use the 3-7-11 for consciousness and 4-8-12 for the unconscious.<br />
3-7-11 differ in that 3 is pre-individual consciousness (what you learn at school, from books and with interactions), 7 is individual consciousness (reflection on yourself as an individual) and 11 is the post-individual consciousness (internet and other forms of global interaction).<br />
The same with the unconscious, 4 is the pre-individual unconsious (personal emotions combined with family and cultural background), 8 is the individual unconsious (psyche and shadow) and 12 the post-individual unconscious (collective unconscious like dreams and myths).</p>
<p>Another interesting question is if each phase can seen as an independent island. I think in reality it can not, as everything can be a combination of several phases at the same time. But as an archetype, each is very different. Sagittarius as an archetype is completely different from Capricorn (expansion versus contraction) and Gemini is completely different from Cancer (intelligence versus emotion).<br />
But each has a cyclic development on its own. So even with Sagittarius there is a phase of realism (Capricorn) in the cycle of, for example, philosophy (Sagittarius). </p>
<p>I hope it all makes a bit sence, if not feel free to ask again.</p>
<p>Annemieke</p>
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		<title>By: Immanuel Ghim</title>
		<link>http://www.mindstructures.com/2009/09/development-in-the-zodiac/comment-page-1/#comment-847</link>
		<dc:creator>Immanuel Ghim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jun 2010 09:46:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mindstructures.com/?p=647#comment-847</guid>
		<description>LTNS Anne~
It&#039;s been months without contact in written letters.
But I wan&#039;t you to know that such dis-contact was due to my extraordinary situation which right now I&#039;m not free to explain.
More-on, I was going through your posts, especially on the extremely heplful and informative ones on D.Bohm, and now finally got to leave you a comment here.

While going through your sincere writings, I concluded to read every one of your posts, one by one, from the very beginning, to correspond your sincerity. This is why I&#039;m leaving my comment to this post.

I understand your distinction between the phenomenological state of human beings. Actually it&#039;s creative. Especially the last phases, that is, those of through number 10 to 12, are which attracts me most.

I have some questions concerning on this post. Maybe your reply and explanation will lead me deeper into your ideas:

1. You have distinguished a life span of human beings into several phases using the zodiac symbols. I&#039;m wondering if you mean that only one of the twelve a human being performs in such a period of time in its life.

2. What does the &#039;saturn square&#039; mean? I&#039;m just curious about the concept; I&#039;ve never heard of it before.

3.  Doesn&#039;t each phase, individually, have some characteristic (or element, whatever that may be unless it is something contained in it) sharing with another phase? As far as I understand,  phases 1 ~ 3 deals the pre-consciousness, and 4 ~ 6 deals the consciousness-in-the-society, and 7 ~ 9 the super-consciousness, and finally 10 ~ 12 the spirit-as-a-whole. I agree that each the phases may be distinguished by its major function and characteristics, but I wonder whether each phases can serve as an independent island with keen borders.


Hope to hear from you.
Health and Peace.
Ighim</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LTNS Anne~<br />
It&#8217;s been months without contact in written letters.<br />
But I wan&#8217;t you to know that such dis-contact was due to my extraordinary situation which right now I&#8217;m not free to explain.<br />
More-on, I was going through your posts, especially on the extremely heplful and informative ones on D.Bohm, and now finally got to leave you a comment here.</p>
<p>While going through your sincere writings, I concluded to read every one of your posts, one by one, from the very beginning, to correspond your sincerity. This is why I&#8217;m leaving my comment to this post.</p>
<p>I understand your distinction between the phenomenological state of human beings. Actually it&#8217;s creative. Especially the last phases, that is, those of through number 10 to 12, are which attracts me most.</p>
<p>I have some questions concerning on this post. Maybe your reply and explanation will lead me deeper into your ideas:</p>
<p>1. You have distinguished a life span of human beings into several phases using the zodiac symbols. I&#8217;m wondering if you mean that only one of the twelve a human being performs in such a period of time in its life.</p>
<p>2. What does the &#8216;saturn square&#8217; mean? I&#8217;m just curious about the concept; I&#8217;ve never heard of it before.</p>
<p>3.  Doesn&#8217;t each phase, individually, have some characteristic (or element, whatever that may be unless it is something contained in it) sharing with another phase? As far as I understand,  phases 1 ~ 3 deals the pre-consciousness, and 4 ~ 6 deals the consciousness-in-the-society, and 7 ~ 9 the super-consciousness, and finally 10 ~ 12 the spirit-as-a-whole. I agree that each the phases may be distinguished by its major function and characteristics, but I wonder whether each phases can serve as an independent island with keen borders.</p>
<p>Hope to hear from you.<br />
Health and Peace.<br />
Ighim</p>
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